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Editor fighting me -need help

After months on hesitation, I finally bought BASE2, for use with Bitwig.

I've been using it for a few hours now, and I'm generally disappointed.  In particular, every time I try to make a change to a function (faders and LEDs for now) in the Editor, the changes I want to have made do not stick.  I know I'm going through the (less than straight-forward) process correctly, because some of the other changes I made DID stick.

I particular, I want to change the resolution of the faders.  Now set on "abs+fine" but I want fixed velocity and red LEDs.  It WILL NOT save that configuration , and I've been trying for hours.  Ready to quit.  I didn't want to fight...that's what Native Instruments is for.

Would also like to know if a pad can display the same color as the clip in Bitwig, rather than default Green for running.  Another post on this forum makes request, not answered.

Please help.  Right now I want to take this thing back.

Comments

  • Are you using the included controller script in Bigwig?  If it's loaded, it's probably changing some of your settings....


    a

  • edited June 2015

    Yes the controller script was loaded onto Bitwig - as directed.  How else was it going to work?  Isn't the point of using the Editor to make the necessary changes to the script?

    But you're right - it could be Bitwig not accepting changes.  I've tried everything I can think of... I'm open to new ideas short of a mallet at this point.

  • Each time the script in bitwig is opened it writes the settings it expects to the BASE//.

    What changes are you making in the editor?

  • When using the script, it's going to override many of the changes you make in the editor.  Your settings will go back to the way you saved them when you replug your BASE, but if you want to make changes to colors/functionality while using the script, you'll have to do that in the script itself.  


    Generally, using the editor to make changes is more for use when you are NOT using a script.  

    If you can tell me what sort of modifications you're trying to make specifically, I can try to instruct you how to make those changes in the javascript file that Bitwig uses to communicate with BASE.

    a

  • > amounra said: > When using the script, it's going to override many of the changes you make in the editor.  Your settings will go back to the way you saved them when you replug your BASE, but if you want to make changes to colors/functionality while using the script, you'll have to do that in the script itself.  

    Can you tell me how to use Base in Bitwig without running the script, then?  I'm under the impression (from the initial setup directions...) that the script needs to be in place for Base to run.  I can live with most of the default settings, but in the future I may need to make a change somewhere...isn't that what the Editor is for?

    Generally, using the editor to make changes is more for use when you are NOT using a script.  
    I wish the documentation would indicate that...

    If you can tell me what sort of modifications you're trying to make specifically, I can try to instruct you how to make those changes in the javascript file that Bitwig uses to communicate with BASE.
    Ok this unit is still new to me, so I don't have an exhaustive list of changes to make.  It scares me to think I have to learn javascript code to make changes I can use.  It probably scares you to deal with bitchy customers too...
    I really want to have better resolution on the faders.  Support desk already told me a 'pickup' mode is not possible.  I guess the 'precision' setting would be adequate - I just want a smooth pull up or down, rather than jogging through 11 steps.  If it was sensitive to velocity, even better (velocity not in a MIDI sense, but if I pull fast, a larger range of motion is made...pull slow, finer changes)  I'm worried that if I can't pull a fader down all the way in one swipe, the second swipe will make it jump up to the top again.  In short, I want a smooth fader!  Top to bottom in one pass!
    Default colors on the LEDs are fine - I just want to know how to change if I want to sometime.  I might want the fader colors to match the Scene color or the track color, for easy locating on the fly.  Better yet, have it pickup whatever color Bitwig has selected?

    Again, isn't this the whole point of the Editor?  Could you somehow make Bitwig stop overriding the settings on the Base?




  • Regarding LED track colors - now that I think more about it, if the colors can be setup in the track select pad at the top to show some kind of grouping it would help.  For example, you're hammering away and want to find track 6 quickly. ..if the colors were grouped in twos or fours or something, you could find your track 6 at a glance.  Similar to the grouping of the black keys on a keyboard - you don't have to count to find the one you need, because you see the pattern.

    Just a thought. 

  • edited June 2015


    > trimix said: > Can you tell me how to use Base in Bitwig without running the script, then?  I'm under the impression (from the initial setup directions...) that the script needs to be in place for Base to run.  I can live with most of the default settings, but in the future I may need to make a change somewhere...isn't that what the Editor is for?


    It is necessary in Bitwig (AFAIK) to have a script installed in order to facilitate communication between the controller and Bitwig's MIDI Learn functionality.  It doesn't have to be the Base script we've written, it's possible to write another, more simplistic script.  This would prevent any setting changes from occurring on the Base, but would limit the functionality to basic "MIDI Learn" behavior that is available within Bitwigs GUI.  I believe Peter has some scripts that do this, I'll ask him about it and get back to you tomorrow.  However, this will eliminate most of the more advanced functionality that is provided in our stock script.  

    The purpose of the editor is to make it possible for you to send messages to the controller that change settings instantaneously and save those settings to the controller.  This is effective for software that does not make use of specific protocols for communicating with Base, but generally you will get a much more robust control environment when you use a script (because the script is capable of accessing much more of the software's functionality through its API).  The script is using the same messages to make changes to the controller that the editor does.  However, a script is better able to make those changes dynamically so that the controls/leds on the controller reflect the current state of what it is that you are controlling.

    > trimix said: > Ok this unit is still new to me, so I don't have an exhaustive list of changes to make.  It scares me to think I have to learn javascript code to make changes I can use.  It probably scares you to deal with bitchy customers too...

    I'm not scared ;)  Everyone has a different way of using our controllers, and everyone has a different level of understanding about how it all works.  There's a certain investment you have to make towards learning how to get everything to work the way you'd like, and its proportional to how unique your desired setup is.  I've tried to write the scripts in such a way that I can instruct end users to make simple changes to the existing scripts in a text editor and get vastly different functionality.  However, as with everything, you usually get out of it what you put into it.  It's good to start with small changes until you get comfortable with the process, but its generally pretty encouraging for users once they see that a few small changes aren't hard to make, nothing has become broken, and they've made some good progress.

    I really want to have better resolution on the faders.  Support desk already told me a 'pickup' mode is not possible.  

    This is a gripe of mine as well....its something we've brought up with Bitwig and hopefully we'll see it in a future version.

    Default colors on the LEDs are fine - I just want to know how to change if I want to sometime.  I might want the fader colors to match the Scene color or the track color, for easy locating on the fly.  Better yet, have it pickup whatever color Bitwig has selected?

    That's unfortunately a rather advanced change to make to the script, for a lot of reasons (mainly, Base only displays 7 colors, whereas a great deal more are possible in Bitwig).  It's certainly not impossible, but its not something we have planned at the moment.  

    Again, isn't this the whole point of the Editor?  Could you somehow make Bitwig stop overriding the settings on the Base?

    You certainly could, but the nature of the script is such that it will constantly be making changes to the Base's settings.   I think you'll find that the effort it would take to turn all that sort of stuff off in the script would be better spent rewriting the portions of the script to do what you want to in the first place.  FWIW, Javascript is a very well documented language, and there are lots of different example scripts written for Bitwig to get you going.  One of the great things about Bitwig is the open documentation of it's scripting language (unlike Ableton), but it IS the scripting language that makes it powerful:  in order to make use of some functionality, it's necessary to tap into it using Javascript.

    Another option is to pay to have a commissioned script written to your liking.  However, I'm always happier to teach a man to fish then to catch it for him ;)

    I hope this helps you understand a little better how the controller interfaces with Bitwig, and I'm happy to answer any questions or help out however I can.

    a

  • ok thanks for the info.

    I guess I need to learn to fish...where do I start?

  • Best thing to do is come up with the details of the changes you want to make....write them all down and draw a picture (it will help me to visualize things better). 


    In general, though, it's a good idea to familiarize yourself with the wiki document on Base (a basic understanding of what is going on via MIDI between Base and  Bitwig is essential to success).  Here's the wiki page:


    In addition, I'd make a go of reading through Bitwig's documentation about writing control scripts to familiarize yourself with how that works.  In Bitwig, choose the help menu on the top and select "Control Surface Scripting Guide...."

    I'm not sure how up to date that information is, but it will help regardless.  One thing I should mention that I don't see there:  you can also put scripts in ~/Documents/Bitwig Studio/Controller Scripts/ and they will override any scripts in the application bundle, but won't be overwritten when you download new versions of Bitwig.  I recommend this approach, otherwise you may accidentally delete revisions you've made to the stock scripts.

    As far as Javascript goes, there are lots of resources on the internet for learning about its structure and grammar.  Studying examples provided with Bitwig is a good place to start, but a general understanding of how Javascript works will go a long way towards helping avoid frustration when making changes to those.

    a


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